-18

Is there any way to organize a voting so that people decide if two sections of SE (Ubuntu and Linux) should be merged?

UPDATE

Please vote to reopen my question on AU

http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/5473/where-to-vote-about-merging-ubuntu-and-linux-again-2-years-passed

I guess their admins don't like people to even see the question.

UPDATE

Just to note fro those who can't count: 72+89 > 114+34

  • 4
    A beautiful irony is ' you got down votes from both meta sites' , Means community disagree with this :) – Tachyons Dec 1 '12 at 19:01
  • 11
    Regarding your snipe at the AU mods, you cross posted and then duplicate-posted. It's almost funny that you might want to suggest something as dramatic as a site merge when you won't follow the basic rules (and then blame others for it)... – Oli Dec 1 '12 at 19:08
  • I am repeating a question because they are closing it. I think closing this question is malicious. I wouldn't excite if I was just answered, but they CLOSED my mouth! They are not of good will. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 19:37
  • ^You posted an answer and got enough downvotes, Then how can you say that they closed your mouth ? Closing !=deleting, closed questions can be reopen by community – Tachyons Dec 1 '12 at 19:51
  • I got very few downvotes, probably from engaged persons. There are thousands people in communities. Ask them. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 22:14
  • 2
    What would be your rationale for this merge? – Renan Dec 1 '12 at 23:48
  • 1
    i guess this question's form/phrasing (Where to vote on merging Ubuntu and Linux?) is the reason for it being down-voted: it assumes that the practical merging is already at stake, which isn't. i see it as a largely accepted question if rephrased: why not merge (vote to merge)?. if this question was really bad why would it result in up-voted/interesting answers? having good answers is the best a question can get, even if these answers are not what the author expected. i would edit it (cannot) and not only the title but also remove the updates – user32012 Feb 13 '13 at 8:36
19

We did, back when the sites first went into beta. Ask Ubuntu was opposed, so we stayed separate:

http://blog.stackoverflow.com/images/wordpress/ubuntu-vs-unix-graph.png

You can read What is the relationship between Linux/Unix SE and Ubuntu SE to see how it works since we stayed separate. Also How should questions cross-posted on Ask Ubuntu be handled?, which mentions cross-posting and why we prefer you not do it. At this point it's entirely too late to merge the sites, plus Ask Ubuntu is a special case because they're officially endorsed by Canonical, and I'm sure Canonical wants their official help site to be Ubuntu-only.

  • This is cheating since 72+89 > 114+34. So most people wish to merge. I know I can read about the eggs should be better cracked from sharp end, this is not interesting for me. I wish to know how to organize honest representative voting. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 17:35
  • Can we re-vote so that all voters be equal, i.e. not belonging to one of the sections? Also counting that 2 years passed. I just don't want to post each question twice what I am definitely will do. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 17:38
  • 15
    @Dims This is representative voting; you want popular voting. We're not going to force Ubuntu to merge if they don't want to just because most of us do, that would be bad. What if tomorrow 10000 Super User users decide they want to absorb us -- are we going to allow hostile takeovers of sites now? And at this point, even if everyone wanted to merge (they don't) and Canonical were fine with it (I'm sure they wouldn't be), we still probably wouldn't; the sites are too established, it would be an epic undertaking to try and merge them together – Michael Mrozek Dec 1 '12 at 17:40
  • sorry, but what are you talking about? There are no "US" and no "THEM", there are only internet people having questions and answers. For example, what about me? I have not much reputation here, but I have more than 10 yrs exp and don't wish to assign myself to any of these groups. So YES, if 10000 people decide to absorb "US" then "WE" will be absorbed and cry for a long time because of need to change bookmarks in our browsers. BTW it can be done that bookmarks need not to change. Then we will cry just because. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 17:57
  • 9
    @Dims If you prefer me to say "Active Unix and Linux Stack Exchange users" and "Active Ask Ubuntu Stack Exchange users" over and over I can; "Us" and "Them" were convenient abbreviations. Feel free to not belong to either, but these sites are communities, and we're not going to tell them to go to hell because we've decided to force them to merge. In one if not both cases, it would lead to users leaving because they don't want merged sites, and we decided to respect that years ago – Michael Mrozek Dec 1 '12 at 18:04
  • this was not terminology. Have you investigated both sections user lists? I bet 98% are the same users. Of course 2% of top users differs. So saying there are no "US" and no "THEM" I was expressing my humble opinion that community is unite. You may correct me if you have opposite information. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 18:09
  • AFAIK askubuntu is not an official ubuntu website, But practically it is the best ubuntu help fourum, canonical have no control over askubuntu It is entirly governed by community and stack exchange team. – Tachyons Dec 2 '12 at 1:14
  • 3
    @AboobackerMk Canonical doesn't control it, but as I understood it they do have some kind of agreement where they officially endorse it and direct people there. I don't know exactly what it entails – Michael Mrozek Dec 2 '12 at 1:15
  • 2
    Thats right, Canonical gave permission to include copyrighted material like ubuntu logo and design, They included akubuntu link in ubuntu installer, official wikis etc, And askubuntu became a hottopic in UDS :) – Tachyons Dec 2 '12 at 1:24
  • Anyway, one should consider the logistics of a site merge. Losing info from AU or U&L is bad, dupes are bad. What can be done now that the sites have a good number of questions? (78K on AU and 18K here) – Reinstate Monica - ζ-- Dec 2 '12 at 3:21
  • @Dims A large percentage of Gardening & Landscaping and English Language & Usage users are also overlap. That is no argumetn for merging them! – Caleb Dec 6 '12 at 8:16
15

Well as Michael explains it so well in his comments, we're separate now. This isn't just a partition between questions and reputation but community.

And that doesn't just mean different individuals — which, I'll add, we are to a very high degree (just look at the numbers of users on each site!) — each site has grown in its own way over the past two years. We have come to do certain things in our own way.

I could warble on about what Ask Ubuntu is and why it deserves to be separate (and perhaps moreso, why Unix.SE shouldn't have to deal with our nonsense!) but I can't see that you've given any reason why the two sites should merge in the first place. Why should there be a vote if nothing has changed?

Edit: It's hard to tell if you've just rolled in to troll two sites at once but I'm starting to get fed up. I'd like to concentrate my replies and pre-empt you in some other places:

  • Your posts on AU were closed (not deleted). You can still comment on them so no censorship. If the community finds value in them, they will be reopened.

  • Your posts were closed because they were all outside the rules. Cross-posting and duplicates. Merging the two sites will not help you follow the rules.

  • As Michael said, you can't combine two votes into one and get a fair result. You have no idea how distinct those votes are and even if they were distinct, why would what the majority of Unix.SE want override what the majority of AU wanted?

  • To get a referendum on anything serious like this, you need to put forward an argument for your idea and the community needs to like it. Neither of these things has happened.

  • Your counter to that seems to be either the amount of time or the number of users, either way, so what? We don't have referendums on everything because that's a pig-inefficient way of doing things. Only well argued, well thought out ideas have the smallest chance of being considered by The Powers That Be (the mods can't action a vote, let alone a merge).

  • Not only that but you keep regurgitating the same nonsense to different people even after those arguments get slapped down. This is not a viable or sustainable debating technique because you're not listening.

  • And most of all, and this is something we've all been skirting around, AU and Unix.SE will never, ever merge. They are two websites that draw in more traffic and command more organic search engine power separately than they would combined. Stack Exchange, Inc. is a business and there is no commercial basis for merging.

Note: I'm an Ask Ubuntu mod, so when I say "we", "our", etc, I mean it from AU's perspective.

  • You consider voting of 300 people 2 years ago is actual now, when there are thousands of people on both sites??? – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 19:34
  • 7
    @Dims Exactly! They've had two years and thousands of users working like this and it's been going pretty well for both sites. Why do you want to "fix" something that isn't broken? – Oli Dec 1 '12 at 20:13
  • Something IS broken, because when I JUST ASKED about merging, I was closed. The topic is prohibited, hence you can't know does people want to merge or not. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 22:11
  • 6
    @Dims You're being deliberately obtuse. The topic isn't "prohibited", you're talking about it right here -- it was closed on AU because you've got a post right here about it, there's no need to have the same discussion twice on two separate threads – Michael Mrozek Dec 1 '12 at 22:48
  • @Dims Again with the 1+1=Oranges. Merging AU with Unix.SE is not going to make you follow the rules and guidelines. That's the only reason those threads were closed. – Oli Dec 1 '12 at 23:19
9

According to the Stack Exchange sites page, U&L currently has 24,000 users and AU has 86,000.

On U&L there are 18,000 quesions, 90% of which have been answered. On AU, 76% of the 78,000 questions have been answered.

What this snapshot shows is that both sites have thriving communities, and have developed their own wikis over time.

There is no compelling argument to be made to merge the two sites now; and as we regularly see questions migrated between the two sites, the separation of the two interest areas obviously works well for both communities.

  • Then just make a voting and you win. What a problem with this? How can you refer voting with 300 people? – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 22:09
  • 7
    Why? The onus is on you to prove the need for a vote. There is only one person saying this needs to be voted on; that hardly constitutes a call for change... – jasonwryan Dec 1 '12 at 22:17
  • How can you see I am one if anyone is punished for the topic? After few posts me too will know that this topic is a taboo. Most probably some others also want to merge but just know this is dangerous to suggest. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 22:20
  • P.S. Also don't you see voting results? Majority of people 2 yrs ago was for the merging. Just count numbers if you can. This is slightly harder than downvote. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 22:21
  • No-one, apart from yourself, is "punishing" you. I would suggest you leave this topic sit for a couple of days, gather some perspective and reflect on the fact that you are hearing consistent, polite responses from a range of people. Your continued pursuing of this is currently borderline trolling... – jasonwryan Dec 1 '12 at 22:30
  • I don't think closing the question is polite. I don't dispute that some responses are polite. – Dims Dec 1 '12 at 22:34
  • 3
    @Dims the question you posted on Meta Ask Ubuntu was closed because it was crossposted (which is heavily frowned upon) here. – Renan Dec 2 '12 at 2:13
7

Voting is time consuming. It requires infrastructure to be set up (can't get votes from thousands of people by hand). It requires efforts to notify everyone that a vote is occurring (hardly fair if you don't). It requires efforts to actually get them to vote (what, you want a quorum?). It requires a lot of discussion. And of course, it takes time—for each and every voter—to read the arguments and actually vote.

Total it all up, and you're requesting other people to spend at at least a week of time.

On something that was already decided once before. With no actual arguments as to why the status quo should be changed. But with plenty of vitriol, it seems.

You don't particularly have any involvement in either community, with a total of one upvoted question and no answers in each community.

So, I think when you take that all into account, its pretty clear why there is no vote and shouldn't be one as a result of your request for one.

I sit on the board of my HOA. We have five directors. Even we require a second before we hold a vote. Out of a hundred thousand, you don't even have a second in your call for a vote.

Please stop trolling.

6

Ubuntu is about more than just "Linux",

I use AskUbuntu not only because I use Ubuntu (operating system), but also because of

focusing on people's allegiances and relations with each other

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28philosophy%29

Although the site focuses on Ubuntu the operating system it is the only version of linux I currently use.

Would you also force a merge of AskDiffrent(the Mac site) only because it is Unix based?

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .